After perusing the Penguin Guide to Jazz on CD, LP, and Cassette a bitover the last week, I have a few thoughts.First of all, it definitely worth getting for any jazz fan. 1200 pages ofreviews of in print recordings, organized by artist, with the recordingsfor each artists reviewed as a set, rather than as independent reviews,plus some biographical information on the artists. I think if everyoneon r.m.b had a copy, bandwidth would go down noticably because wewouldn't be answering questions (what are the 2-3 essential Ornetterecords?).On the other hand there are enough controvertial ratings there to morethan replace the saved bandwidth with debates on what Penguin has to say.('Do you believe what Penguin said about Ornette's NEW YORK IS NOW?Thin and directionless? Those guys wouldn't know a great recordif they tripped over it' etc., etc.-and no, I don't want to startthat debate:-).)The book has only two authors (Robin Cook and Brian Morton, both assocaitedwith WIRE, and no other reviewers are credited in the introducion. Ifthese two gentlemen really did reveiw all those recordings (I would guessabout 8000 or so covering every sub-genre from early New Orleans to avantgarde and European improv!), that is pretty amazing. I suspect that theyhad some help reviewing things, though, because of the volume and theinconsitency of the ratings.Ah, the ratings. 1 to 5 stars.
Tons of 3 star records. Verygenerous with 4 stars. Not many 5 stars. And I didn't pay as much attentionto the 1 and 2 star frequencies.Now we all know that these kind of ratings are BS (which is why Cadence isso nice-you have to read the review and do a little thinking to form ajudgement, instead of having it done for you completely). But they arestill interesting, and in some cases surprising. My biggest surprisewas that I found they were usually within 1 star of what I would have ratedrecordings I felt I knew pretty well.
Now my own knowledge of Shadow Wilson's drumming had come from the Thelonious Monk/John Coltrane Carnegie Hall concert that was only discovered and released a few years ago. Wilson was obviously a drummer who felt equally home playing in small, progressive groups such as with Monk and Coltrane and then also switching gears to play with the.
Of course there were some glaringerrors (to me:-) ), like Bradford's COMIN ON at only 2 stars (4 in myjudgement) and John Carter's wonderful suites at only 3 stars each(4.5 for me).But the most interesting part of the ratings is the set of 5 starrecordings: No Diz. A few surprises(to me, at least, because of unfamiliarity-hopefully hidden masterpieces,because I intend to buy a few of them): Brotzmann, Schlippenbach (whichshould make Bill Hsu exstatic), Edward Vasala.not complaints, justsurprises.Here's the list of Penguin 5 Star recordings. In article, (william.j.hery) writes:stuff deletedI am on a von Schlipp kick right now. However, I have no idea what this isor who is playing on it.
Bill Hery, could you elaborate on this one? Sun Ra, Jazz in Silhouette Art Tatum, Complete Pablo Solo Masterpieced Edward Vesala, Lumi Vienna Art Orchestra, The Minimalism of Erik Satie Larry Young, Unity Zorn, The Big Gundown Bill Hery AT&T Bell Labs 201-386-2362 [email protected] can they leave off Sun Ra's ESP titles? Mingus' band with Dolpy?This really is a ridiculous list.No AEC, Braxton, Lacy, Ayler (!).What about Dexter's 60s Blue Notes?No small group Lester Young?Roy Eldridge? TURNING POINT by Paul Bley.Ahhhhhhhhhh! Is some of this stuff not in print in [email protected] 11:38.
In article, [email protected] (John Thomas) writes:In article, (william.j.hery) writes:stuff deleted Here's the list of Penguin 5 Star recordings. Keep in mind that only recordings currently in print in England are reviewed ) Rollins, Saxophone Colossus Alexander von Schlippenbach, Pakistani PomadeI am on a von Schlipp kick right now. However, I have no idea what this isor who is playing on it. Bill Hery, could you elaborate on this one? 'Pakistani Pomade' FMP 110, Evan Parker (ss,ts); AVS; Paul Lovens (d);from November, 1972.
Unfortunately, I don't have the LP, so can't say whatthe music is like.This isn't listed in Cadence, has anyone an idea of whereto purchase this by mail order?Bill KenzMoorhead, MNBrian Lindsay24.01.93 13:21. In article John Thomas writes:In article, (william.j.hery) writes:stuff deleted Here's the list of Penguin 5 Star recordings.
Keep in mind that only recordings currently in print in England are reviewed in the book. How can they leave off Sun Ra's ESP titles? Mingus' band with Dolpy?This really is a ridiculous list.Ahhhhhhhhhh! Is some of this stuff not in print in England?!I am sure a lot of potential 5 star recordings are out of printover in UK (and here), but I think you also have to bear in mindwhat they are indicating with 5 stars.4 stars indicates ' an outstanding record that demands a placein any comprehensive collection'.The 5 star recordings are supposed to be of a 'desert islandcalibre, amoung the very finest of all jazz recordings., only a handful of discs'. Maybe the exercise is futile, butanytime you try and limit yourself to a handful there isgoing to be something that someone else thinks should havebeen on the list.In any case I think its an excellent reference. I especiallylike the fact that the players for each recording are fullylisted, plus it has a full index, so you can find every (inUK print) recording your favorite player was on.-The opinions expressed above are solely those of Brian [email protected] 06:59. I forgot to mention that I do have, however, an excellent recording ofAVS, Parker, Lovens, and the late Alan Silva on FMP 1020, recorded about 10years after 'Pakistani Pomade.'
Silva's presence perhaps makes this especiallygood. I checked my FMP catalog because I thought there were otherAVS/Parker/Lovens recordings, #410 'The Hidden Peak' (with Peter Kowald onbass) looks promising also (1977). FMP 1020 is called 'Anticlockwise.' Hasanyone any impressions of 'The Hidden Peak?' A final note: most of the Globe Unity Orchestra recordings are also worthinvestigating. 'Evidence' (FMP 220) and 'Into the Valley' (FMP 270) areavailable as single LP's or as one CD (I don't have the CD, but assume it'scomplete). The music is from a live concert March 1975.
I originally boughtit for the Steve Lacy contributions, but have found the rest of the band justas invigorating (Evan Parker, Albert Mangelsdorff, Peter Kowald, KennyWheeler, and others.)Bill KenzMoorhead State UniversityMinnesota1/25/93Marc Sabatella25.01.93 10:06. William.j.hery wrote:: ('Do you believe what Penguin said about Ornette's NEW YORK IS NOW?: Thin and directionless? Those guys wouldn't know a great record: if they tripped over it' etc., etc.-and no, I don't want to start: that debate:-).)OK, then I will:-). Not about 'New York Is Now' (a perfectly average Ornettealbum, I'd say), but about some of the 5 star recordings.: No Diz. No Brownie.The lack of Diz doesn't surprise me - for a guy who had been around as long ashe had, and who was considered an all-time great, he didn't really seem tohave much that was considered 'essential' under his own name. But I imaginehe must have appeared on a Bird collection or two that rated 5 stars?One could probably make the same argument (minus the length of service bit forBrownie) for the others, except Ornette. How 'The Shape Of Jazz To Come'managed to evade that fifth star is a mystery to me.: Blakey, Jazz Messengers with Thelonious MonkIck.
I was pretty excited when I first saw this recording, but having heardit, I have to say it is one of my least favorite Blakey albums, and one of myleast favorite Monk albums.: Bill Evans, Sunday at the Village Vanguard: Bill Evans, Waltz For DebbieEven a set of outtakes from the same session rates 5 stars (not that I'mdisagreeing, mind you).: Andrew Hill, Point of Departure: Bobby Hutcherson, DialogI think these two are the same album. At least, every time I grab one to puton, I'm always expecting it to be the other:-) They are also both arguablyDolphy's 'Out To Lunch'. So I guess it doesn't surprise me to see all threeget 5's, although I would have given them only 3-4.All on all, I find their choices, well, weird. You'd kind of expect a shortlist of 5-star recordings to look more like a set of 'essential' and/or'historic' recordings. I'd almost expect them to do a 'top down' analysis -agree on the 20 (or however many there were) best recordings, give them 5stars, then maybe go back and individually rate the others.-Marc Sabatella-Amendment 2 Is Legalized Discrimination - Shame On You, Colorado-'Neither the State of Colorado. Nor any of its municipalities.
Shall.enforce any. Whereby homosexual, lesbian, or bisexualorientation. Be the basis of. Claim of discrimination'-All opinions expressed herein are my personal onesand do not necessarily reflect those of HP or anyone else.Dick Burger25.01.93 11:49. : Andrew Hill, Point of Departure: Bobby Hutcherson, DialogI think these two are the same album. At least, every time I grab one to puton, I'm always expecting it to be the other:-) They are also both arguablyDolphy's 'Out To Lunch'. So I guess it doesn't surprise me to see all threeget 5's, although I would have given them only 3-4.I think Richard Davis plays bass on all three of these records.
RD teacheshere at the University of Wisconsin (he's a great story teller!), and I havea soft spot for his work from the early sixties. I think that Richard Davisis a little like Art Blakey in that he seems to bring out the best in theother musicians.By the way, there's a Earl Hines Trio record from the 60's with RD on bassthat is just fantastic. I think it is called Stanley the Steamer orsomething like that, maybe it is on Douglass Records. Incrediblemusic from an unlikely combo. Somehow in my lust to enter the world of CD'si allowed this precious vinyl to slip through my fingers. Anybody seenEarl Hines with Richard Davis music on CD?dick burgerSandeep Mehta25.01.93 06:30.
In article [email protected] writes: 'Pakistani Pomade' FMP 110, Evan Parker (ss,ts); AVS; Paul Lovens (d); from November, 1972. Unfortunately, I don't have the LP, so can't say what the music is like. This isn't listed in Cadence, has anyone an idea of where to purchase this by mail order?Sadly it is out of print until Mr. Gebers does a CD run. Cadencebought/got all the remaining vinyl stock from FMP and there will beno more.
If you didn't see it in the Jan issue it is OOP. You mightbe lucky to find a used copy somewhere. Given the recent press I'dsay it'll be back before long (wishful thinking!)/sandeep-'This space of time is organized. We need not fear thesesilences, - we may love them.'
- John Cage, Silences, [email protected] 02:15. In article, (Sandeep Mehta) writes: Date: 25 Jan 93 14:30:06Lines: 22In article [email protected] writes: 'Pakistani Pomade' FMP 110, Evan Parker (ss,ts); AVS; Paul Lovens (d); from November, 1972. Unfortunately, I don't have the LP, so can't say what the music is like. This isn't listed in Cadence, has anyone an idea of where to purchase this by mail order?Sadly it is out of print until Mr. Gebers does a CD run.
Cadencebought/got all the remaining vinyl stock from FMP and there will beno more. If you didn't see it in the Jan issue it is OOP. You mightbe lucky to find a used copy somewhere. Given the recent press I'dsay it'll be back before long (wishful thinking!)Sandeep:Have you any impressions of the LP? I'm assuming you own it. Just curious,since if I ever see it, I'll buy it!Bill KenzJohn Thomas25.01.93 08:53. In article, [email protected] writes: A final note: most of the Globe Unity Orchestra recordings are also worth investigating.
'Evidence' (FMP 220) and 'Into the Valley' (FMP 270) are available as single LP's or as one CD (I don't have the CD, but assume it's complete). The music is from a live concert March 1975. I originally bought it for the Steve Lacy contributions, but have found the rest of the band just as invigorating (Evan Parker, Albert Mangelsdorff, Peter Kowald, Kenny Wheeler, and others.) Bill Kenz Moorhead State University Minnesota 1/25/93 Yes!
The CD is RUMBLING and it is complete although I can't remember ifit includes any extras not on the LPs.I have got it at home and like it a lot. Milo Fine slams it in arecent Cadence for the very reasons why I like it so much sodon't take his word too seriously.The sound isn't the best but considering the availability of GUOor BCJO recordings I am not complaining.Andrew Sherman25.01.93 16:08.
(william.j.hery) says: First of all, it definitely worth getting for any jazz fan. 1200 pages of reviews of in print recordings, organized by artist, with the recordings for each artists reviewed as a set, rather than as independent reviews, plus some biographical information on the artists. I think if everyone on r.m.b had a copy, bandwidth would go down noticably because we wouldn't be answering questions (what are the 2-3 essential Ornette records?). On the other hand there are enough controvertial ratings there to more than replace the saved bandwidth with debates on what Penguin has to say. ('Do you believe what Penguin said about Ornette's NEW YORK IS NOW?
Thin and directionless? Those guys wouldn't know a great record if they tripped over it' etc., etc.-and no, I don't want to start that debate:-).)I have to say this book is a must for all jazz fans, and I've only haadit a few hours. Incidentally, I got my copy in Crown books, so I thinkwe can assume it'll be in most places this week.One thing I really like is that there is a consistent voice (orshould that be two voices?).
It's not like the Rolling Stone JazzRecord Guide where you don't know if the reviewer of any particularartist is their biggest fan or their worst enemy. And that's anotherthing, it's good that it's so personal. I hate those lists that goKind of BlueGiant StepsOut of the CoolPortrait in Jazzetc.cos there's no personality. With this books there areidiosyncrasies, it's worth discussing.Also, what should we call it? 'Penguin' sounds silly. How about'Cook and Morton'?-Andrew Sherman Ingres, an ASK company, 1080 Marina Village Parkway, Alameda, California 94501william.j.hery25.01.93 20:11.
[email protected] (Andrew Sherman) writes:One thing I really like is that there is a consistent voice (orshould that be two voices?). The Earl Hines trio work with Richard Davis is I believe (H is not yet inrecdb, sigh), on an RCA Black And White twofer. The trio had Elvin Joneson drums, and was recorded in 1966.
Elsewhere on that twofer is anothertrio with Oscar Pettiford and Kenny Clarke from 1953 (all this from memory,and not guaranteed correct). Killer piano. When the Fatha wanted to swing,no one, young or old, could get in his way.-Marcel-Franck Simon, usl!mingus' Papa Loko, ou se' van, ou-a pouse'-n ale'Nou se' papiyon, n'a pote' nouvel bay Agwe' 'John Thomas26.01.93 10:56. In article, (Marc Sabatella) writes: : Andrew Hill, Point of Departure : Bobby Hutcherson, Dialog I think these two are the same album. At least, every time I grab one to put on, I'm always expecting it to be the other:-) They are also both arguably Dolphy's 'Out To Lunch'. So I guess it doesn't surprise me to see all three get 5's, although I would have given them only 3-4. All on all, I find their choices, well, weird.
You'd kind of expect a short list of 5-star recordings to look more like a set of 'essential' and/or 'historic' recordings. I'd almost expect them to do a 'top down' analysis - agree on the 20 (or however many there were) best recordings, give them 5 stars, then maybe go back and individually rate the others. Well, I just got my copy the other night and yes, their choices arekind of weird for this type of buyer's guide but I would say moreaccurately it is heavily biased.As you read the text below the star ratings for each entry, you canreadily see the European bias in preference for players, instrumental coloring,etc. That is also prevalent in the UK magazine The Wire that the authorswere (are) associated with. Not that this is a bad thing, as it isrevealing (to me anyway) for new outlooks on old favorites as wellas rejuvenating interest in records I had initially dismissed.After all both authors are from the UK.I also agree with the post that The Penguin is a better reference toolthan the RSRG (Rolling Stone Record Guide, which also uses 'star'ratings) for the simple fact that the reviews have been limited totwo people instead of the myriad in the RSRG. In fact, I thinkthe RSRG almost is at the opposite pole in terms of star ratingsin that it is too generous - their highest rating is five stars as welland indicates to them 'an essential recording to any serious, comprehensivecollection' or something like that (kind of like Penguin's four starrating) but anyways, one example that comes to mind from the RSRGis the 5 star rating for Jack DeJohnette's ALBUM ALBUM which I foundrather pedestrian even with David Murray on board.Yet, how can The Penguin rate the live Village Vanguard recordingon Impulse! For Albert Ayler OVER the Freedom recordings (VIBRATIONS,WITCHES & DEVILS) and the Coppens HILVERSUM SESSION?
Again, theImpulse title definitely shows a more European stamp with theensemble consisting of mostly strings (violin, cello, bass).Although I like the VV album a lot, I just don't see how one canrate this one over the albums with the transcendent trio ofSunny Murray, Gary Peacock, and Ayler.Another example would be the preference for Coltrane's Major Works(largely due to the presence of both takes of ASCENSION) overOrnette's FREE JAZZ. Looking at the text for both of those,the authors claim ASCENSION is more rooted in collective improvisation(and thus early jazz) than FREE JAZZ which they find rathermechanical in its free treatment of the theme and solos approach.During this discussion the point is also made that since Europeanjazz is more oriented towards collective improv, ASCENSION andthe Euro style have an affinity for one another.Whatever the biases, this really is a great book and invaluablein reviewing recordings normally overlooked by this kind of guide.Sandeep Mehta26.01.93 11:27. Marc Sabatella write:: Blakey, Jazz Messengers with Thelonious MonkIck. I was pretty excited when I first saw this recording, but having heardit, I have to say it is one of my least favorite Blakey albums, and one of myleast favorite Monk albums.Just wanted to mention that I agree completely. It seems like every recordwhere Monk and Blakey play together, it's just magic. The music just comesalive with blakey whacking away back there. So how does this single Monk/Blakeypairing manage to sound so flat?
Equally boggling, how does the Penguinreviewer manage to pick out the one dud from 25+ years of Blakey/Monkrecordings? Must be more to that record than I can appreciate.dick burgerMarc Sabatella27.01.93 09:27. Lea wrote:: I think they should have used a: different notation for their Desert Island Picks than 5 stars, though.: If one takes the 5-stars at their word (DI disks only), I have no: problem with this list - those are their personal favorites. I mean,: if I could only take 38 (or whatever) disks to a desert island, I: might not take any Ornette either (sorry, Sandeep et al) but I would: take some Murray and Lacy, neither of whom got 5 stars either, though: they are deserving, IMO. 38 is a very small subset of 8,000 (or: whatever) albums.I see two different interpretations of 'Desert Island Picks', though. One isthe highly personal, 'this is what I would take, so sue me if I happen to likeGlen Campbell, you can fend for yourselves' type. The other is the 'this isgenerally recognized as seriously important stuff you shouldn't be without'type.
It seems to me that the Penguin (I like referring to it as 'thePenguin', BTW - it reminds me of the Blues Brothers) is mostly trying to besomewhat objective for their ratings, but the 5-star ratings seem way toopersonal.-Marc Sabatella-Amendment 2 Is Legalized Discrimination - Shame On You, Colorado-'Neither the State of Colorado. Nor any of its municipalities. Shall.enforce any. Whereby homosexual, lesbian, or bisexualorientation. Be the basis of. Claim of discrimination'-All opinions expressed herein are my personal onesand do not necessarily reflect those of HP or anyone else.Glenn W.
Lea27.01.93 05:18. Well, my copy finally arrived ('The Penguin has Waddled') and I'vespent two evenings with it.
I say give the guys a roundof applause:) Now to the [email protected] (Andrew Sherman) writes:One thing I really like is that there is a consistent voice (orshould that be two voices?). It's not like the Rolling Stone JazzRecord Guide where you don't know if the reviewer of any particularartist is their biggest fan or their worst enemy.Actually, it sounds like one voice to me. I like their use of 'we'throughout, which gives me the feeling that the reviews are jointopinions, not one or the others'. This could be just a device, Irealize, but it works for me, especially when they say that 'we awarda 5th star to.' .As for the star ratings, they say it's a 4 star system. Given that,though my opinion of many individual ratings may differ, I thinkthey're fairly consistent. I think they should have used adifferent notation for their Desert Island Picks than 5 stars, though.If one takes the 5-stars at their word (DI disks only), I have noproblem with this list - those are their personal favorites.
I mean,if I could only take 38 (or whatever) disks to a desert island, Imight not take any Ornette either (sorry, Sandeep et al) but I wouldtake some Murray and Lacy, neither of whom got 5 stars either, thoughthey are deserving, IMO. 38 is a very small subset of 8,000 (orwhatever) albums.In article (william.j.hery) writes:In reading the reviews, I don't find them to be completely consistent-infact some records which are co-led are reviewed under both artists and inat least one case got different ratings!Well, they do say in the intro that the ratings are subject to change.It doesn't surprise me that this would happen occasionally in a bookthis size. What changed, btw?I find it hard to believe that this is entirelythe work of two reviewers, especially if the recordings are reviewed withany care (meaning several close listenings). At 1200 pages. lots of calculationsBill, consider the fact that Cook was editor of the Wire for 8 yearsand Morton has been a contributor for much of that.
These guys areprofessional record reviewers. I think it's very possible for them tohave done this themselves, though I wouldn't rule out them asking,say, an Ellingon 'expert' to provide relative ratings of theyear-by-year Classics releases. Note that in many of the surveys,they spend much of the text discussing their 'picks' and finesse thedescription of the 'lesser' releases. See the Wayne Shorterdiscussion for an example. I really doubt they sat down and listenedto every one of these CDs within the last year or two; many many (ormost) of them were available on LP, which is where C&M probably firstencountered them and developed their opinions.I, too, am bothered by some of the omissions (as mentioned, BitchesBrew). I think their criterion for inclusion was currentavailability; perhaps they were unable to get a copy in the UK. Iwould imagine they would have to rely on distributors and recordcompanies for their copies and perhaps CBS/Sony just didn't get them acopy of this.
Frankly, I'm not too much sensitive to the ratings: it is a gameand it should considered as such.I'm a little bit more concerned about the copleteness of thePenguin Guide. 'A Bitches Brew' by Miles is not there!(and the justification may not be that it is out of print: youcan find it in every store).
The same for 'Opus the bop' by Stan Getz.And these are just a couple of examples of records that I would expectnot only to find there but also rated (:-) at least.Seriously: probably less musicians with a most complete discographywould be better. BTW: the Guide is a must in anyway.Paolo DonzelliESA/ESRINFrascati [email protected]. Lynn Rardin27.01.93 09:38. In article, (Glenn W. Lea) writes:Well, my copy finally arrived ('The Penguin has Waddled') and I'vespent two evenings with it. I say give the guys a roundof applause:) Now to the nits.discussion about aspects of The Penguin deletedI, too, am bothered by some of the omissions (as mentioned, BitchesBrew).
I think their criterion for inclusion was currentavailability; perhaps they were unable to get a copy in the UK. Iwould imagine they would have to rely on distributors and recordcompanies for their copies and perhaps CBS/Sony just didn't get them acopy of this. Personally, I wish they had not excluded records forthis reason - as regular rmb'ers know, 'out of print' does not mean'not available', just 'hard to find'.GlennNot only that, Glenn, but you never know when things that are currently oopwill suddenly be back in print as a result of a record companies' reissueprograms! I suppose if they publish regular updates to The Penguin (didn't Isee promise of this somewhere??) they'll pick these up in later editions.-Lynn Simon M.F.29.01.93 12:08.
Dick Burger and Marc Sabatella express dislike of that 1957 album.Well, I must think completely differently from you folks, because thatalbum has always struck me as the perfect combination of the subtlepersonal interaction between Blakey and Monk on the one hand, andBlakey's powerhouse drumming with the Messengers on the other hand.For instance, dig Blakey's light cymbal accents during Monk solos,that answer the pianist without overfilling the spaces he leavesbetween notes. John Thomas.In fact, I think the Rolling Stone Record Guide is too generous - their highest rating is five stars as well and indicates to them 'an essential recording to any serious, comprehensive collection' or something like that (kind of like Penguin's four star rating) but anyways, one example that comes to mind from the RSRG is the 5 star rating for Jack DeJohnette's ALBUM ALBUM which I found rather pedestrian even with David Murray on board.The problem with rating that album is that it had just been released whenthe book came out. So the reviewer decided on the rating based on a relativelyshort review time. Early opinions can change a lot, even for a conscentiousreviewer who takes the time to listen to the music several times.
Being ableto evaluate music within its own context requires understanding of that context,and that in turn requires distance, typically of several years.That's the problem with star ratings in encyclopedic works like Penguin orRS; it creates the illusion that all n-star records are of the same level ofquality, and that will never be true. If the 5star standard is Bird's Dialrecordings then.nothing., except perhaps Louis' Hot Five and Sevens, Ornette'soriginal quartet, Trane's 1961 Village Vanguard tapes, Ayler's Peacock/Murraytrio, and Duke's 1939-40 RCAs deserve 5 stars (maybe add Lester Young/CountBasie's Kansas City 7 session). If the reviewer can assign the highest ratingonly to generally recognized classics, then no book cover music recorded after1970 or so, because there has not been enough time to digest and absorb themusic from after that time.I also react to the notion that there is such a thing as too many 5starrecords. I estimate that a bare-bone jazz/blues collection that toucheson most major styles would require 200 records; a representative collectionthat covers most major stylists and selected minor ones in some depth,would take 2000 records; a comprehensive collection that probes deeply intoall major strands of the music, most minor ones, and is complete with respectto selected favorites, would run 20000 records; and to be complete, i.e.
Havemost everything that is of some value, would easily reach 200000 discs.I make these estimates based on the size of my collection, which is just barelyrepresentative at 2400 records, and that of the Institute of Jazz Studies,which is somewhere over 120,000 records, and the people there bemoan howmuch they don't have.So, if 5star means 'should be in a serious, comprehensive collection', andyou go by the rule that 'the best' means the top 10-20% (i.e. 80th-90thpercentile), you should have 2000-4000 5star records.For books like Penguin or RS, that approach the music encyclopedically, Ithink an attitude that 'there may not be more than n top grades' is badand the smaller n, the worse it is. You wind up forcing yourself to tonedown your own enthusiasm, to be too cool to admit that you like the stuff.Which IMO is when you should stop reviewing it.-Marcel-Franck Simon, usl!mingus' Papa Loko, ou se' van, ou-a pouse'-n ale'Nou se' papiyon, n'a pote' nouvel bay Agwe' 'Jeff Miller29.01.93 14:39. I missed the start of this thread, but I also have this CD (a friend of minegave it to me - her father didn't like it and thought I might). Overall it'sokay. My real complaint is that it almost seems that when the album wasrecorded no one was able to hear what anyone else was doing.
Johnny Griffinon every solo plays blindingly fast from start to end. Bill Hartman (sp?)plays IMHO Dixieland styled trumpet on every tune. Monk is Monk, not playingat all behind most solos, and when he does, he plays as if it's his solo.
Whenhe does solo, is mostly whole tone scale based solos. Blakey must have beenin another room, because he just bops away without regard to anyone's solos.So much for my 2 cents.- 'Nuke the unborn gay whales!' Jeff Miller Sandeep Mehta30.01.93 06:59. Marcel wrote: I also react to the notion that there is such a thing as too many 5star records. I estimate that a bare-bone jazz/blues collection that touches on most major styles would require 200 records; a representative collection that covers most major stylists and selected minor ones in some depth, would take 2000 records; a comprehensive collection that probes deeply into all major strands of the music, most minor ones, and is complete with respect to selected favorites, would run 20000 records; and to be complete, i.e. In rec.music.bluenote, (Jeff Miller) writes: I missed the start of this thread, but I also have this CD (a friend of mine gave it to me - her father didn't like it and thought I might).
Overall it's okay. My real complaint is that it almost seems that when the album was recorded no one was able to hear what anyone else was doing. Johnny Griffin on every solo plays blindingly fast from start to end. Bill Hartman (sp?) plays IMHO Dixieland styled trumpet on every tune. Monk is Monk, not playing at all behind most solos, and when he does, he plays as if it's his solo.
When he does solo, is mostly whole tone scale based solos. Blakey must have been in another room, because he just bops away without regard to anyone's solos.You forgot to mention the bass player was out in the parking lot.MarcSabatella03.02.93 09:16. Since people seem to be jumping to the defense of the Blakey/Monk album, Ifigured I'd give some of the particular reasons I don't like it so much. Mostimportantly, Monk manages to be almost predictable - one of the few recordingsI can say that about. Second, being billed as the 'Jazz Messengers', Iexpected something more like Blakey's regular bands - intereting arrangements,and so on.
What it sounds like instead is a generic jam session that happensto have Blakey and Monk together. There are plenty of better versions of thataround.MarcGordon H. Fick08.02.93 08:16. In article (william.j.hery) writes:Here's the list of Penguin 5 Star recordings.
Comments are closed.
|
AuthorWrite something about yourself. No need to be fancy, just an overview. Archives
March 2023
Categories |